Buster Keaton - Silent Comedy Classics - Volume 1 ADDED

[baggish]

Includes four films, none of which have DVD entries in the database, but they do have Blu-Ray entries as indicated:

- Convict 13 (1920) - http://dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=30607
- The High Sign (1921) - http://dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=30605
- Daydreams (1922) - http://dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=30620
- The Balloonatic (1923) - http://dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=30622

Title: Buster Keaton - Silent Comedy Classics - Volume 1
Country: UK
Region: R0
Releasing Studio: Elstree Hill Entertainment
Case Type: Keep case
Aspect Ratio:
- Convict 13 - 1.31:1
- The High Sign - 1.31:1
- Daydreams - 1.31:1
- The Balloonatic - 1.22:1
Anamorphic?: No
PAL or NTSC?: PAL
Soundtracks:
- music LPCM 2.0 mono
Subtitles: None
Cuts: None http://bbfc.co.uk/releases/buster-keaton-1970
Duration:
- Convict 13 - 20:26
- The High Sign - 20:36
- Daydreams - 21:22
- The Balloonatic - 21:58
Commentaries:
Extras:
- None
Notes:
ASIN: (I could only find third party sellers) B0000CAPW3 B01I078LZ0
Sources:
- I borrowed the DVD from a friend

[Brent_Reid]

Elstree Hill is a defunct, quasi-PD outfit. These are all incomplete, unrestored, sped-up transfers, with needle-drop scores of irrelevant old PD music. No disrespect Baggish, but not only should they not be listed, all such releases should be purged from the database - especially where quality alternatives are available. They already have been deleted for many silent films like those of Chaplin, and I've plenty more in my sights!

All of Buster's films have been released by many quality labels worldwide and we're sorely in need of some of those being added!

[baggish]

I agree with you about the quality of the release.

I don't think I agree that it should not be listed, or that similar releases should be purged. This is a comparison database. People use it to compare releases. How can people know to avoid such releases if they are not listed? Wouldn't it be better to include them and say they are bad?

These films are not in the database in DVD format at all at the moment (as far as I can see). So yes from a comparison point of view a good-quality release needs to be found, so the good can be contrasted to the bad. But I suppose we have to start somewhere.

Anyway, if this submission is rejected by the editors, I won't complain.

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

I'll be adding it, don't worry, baggish

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

Do any of the films have English intertitles?

[baggish]

They all have a few English intertitles.

[Brent_Reid]

Both your opinions are perfectly valid, though from a practical point of view I stand by what I said.

For starters, there are literally thousands of different PD DVDs of Keaton's films and PD collections on which they appear. Conversely, there are only a finite number of quality DVDs to be listed and I genuinely think that Chaplin's many comparisons here look much better for only including them. Imagine what a mess they'd be in if we started re-adding all those PD DVDs.
As well as all containing pretty worthless, wholly superseded material, many PD releases are 'bootlegged' from each other as well as all sorts of ropy sources. What's more, it's impossible to list them accurately, for instance in Keaton's case, the vast majority are NTSC-PAL transfers; can you tell which are which? Then don't forget to mention that by their very nature, these choppy, incomplete versions are all literally "cut". You're about to disappear down a very deep and twisty rabbit hole!

As they're all much of a muchness anyway, it's entirely sufficient to simply have a footnote stating the usual "There are also many variable, but often poor quality PD DVDs available from the likes of... [label names]" or words to that effect.

Keaton and Chaplin are the most popular stars of the silent era and their films are restored much more frequently than any others. We and the site's users would be better served by directing our precious time and efforts towards adding some of Buster's many brilliant restored DVD collections.

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

I've added the Elstree shorts and listed them as "unrestored transfers". I know Eureka UK released their restored DVD set and I'm sure others have but I don't have a a definitive list of who else released the restored versions. I'd like to add:

Also available with restored transfers in:
- The US by Kino Video (Buster Keaton - Short Films Collection: 1920-1923)
- The UK by Eureka! (Buster Keaton: The Complete Short Films 1917-1923)
- France by Arte Video (Coffret Buster Keaton 4 DVD - L'Intégrale des courts métrages 1917-1923)

Brent if you could help with adding to the list that would help.

[Brent_Reid]

I would have done a long time ago but I'm afraid I have very little Keaton on DVD; most of it is on BD and all of those are now listed. I do have a few bits and pieces on DVD, but none of the shorts collections. What I do have I'll add eventually.

Complete restored DVD sets of his shorts have also been issued in:

Germany: Buster Keaton: Alle Kurzfilme (1917-1923), ASIN 3898488616 (absolut medien/arte editions)
Spain: Buster Keaton: Todos Sus Cortometrajes 1917-1929, ASIN B001UHIOG4 (Divisa) - also on BD; the only one we're missing: ASIN B01MCW5H81
Australia: The Genius of Buster Keaton: The Short Film Collection 1917-1923, ASIN B071VX7JMZ (Beyond Home Entertainment) - http://www.beyondhe.com.au/shows/index/view/id/497/

Incidentally, is there any particular reason why Keaton's shorts have all been listed individually, while Chaplin's are lumped together? I've no objection; rather, it makes more sense to collect them all in one listing, as that's the only way they can be bought anyway. I was just thinking of the huge amount of extra formatting involved, for seemingly negligible return.

I suppose Harold Lloyd is the only other silent film star whose restored shorts are likely to end up listed here eventually. Again with those, it wouldn't make a ton of sense to have a page for each one. Before you ask, I don't yet own any of his collections either - just a few odd films! I'm holding out in the hope his shorts will one day make it to BD.

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

Complete restored DVD sets of his shorts have also been issued in:

Germany: Buster Keaton: Alle Kurzfilme (1917-1923), ASIN 3898488616 (absolut medien/arte editions)
Spain: Buster Keaton: Todos Sus Cortometrajes 1917-1929, ASIN B001UHIOG4 (Divisa) - also on BD; the only one we're missing: ASIN B01MCW5H81
Australia: The Genius of Buster Keaton: The Short Film Collection 1917-1923, ASIN B071VX7JMZ (Beyond Home Entertainment) - http://www.beyondhe.com.au/shows/index/view/id/497/

Thank you, will update the listing.

Incidentally, is there any particular reason why Keaton's shorts have all been listed individually, while Chaplin's are lumped together? I've no objection; rather, it makes more sense to collect them all in one listing, as that's the only way they can be bought anyway. I was just thinking of the huge amount of extra formatting involved, for seemingly negligible return.

We decided to get rid of the "boxset" listings and instead make individual listings including short films. There was concern of dividing the Chaplin shorts as well, but since the Keystone, Mutual, Essanay films are almost always lumped together in collections, we decided to leave it as that for now. We may divide them up in the future though. Not written in stone.

I suppose Harold Lloyd is the only other silent film star whose restored shorts are likely to end up listed here eventually. Again with those, it wouldn't make a ton of sense to have a page for each one. Before you ask, I don't yet own any of his collections either - just a few odd films! I'm holding out in the hope his shorts will one day make it to BD.

Been planning to update the Lloyd entries (of feature films) for some time now. Thank you for reminding me.

[Brent_Reid]

I see, re the Keaton listings. As you say, his shorts aren't always as neatly divisible as Chaplin's, so kudos for taking on the extra work!

There are a few dozen restored Chaplin shorts also included on various silents collections and as extras on unrelated features discs. But I spent a lot of time detailing all of them in my guides, so as they're linked here I think they're 'covered' well enough!

Of course, exactly the same applies to Keaton too, but it would be a similarly daunting prospect attempting to log all those; I don't fancy tackling it. It's not just actually tracking them down, which is hard enough, but you've got to absorb and assimilate loads of previously unresearched info to figure out the exact provenance of each one. Cue endless reading and innumerable conversations and emails with those responsible for restoring and scoring them...

I honestly think there's only so far you can go with all this, as silent films, especially the most popular ones, are so plastic and constantly being altered and improved.

Good luck with Lloydy!

[baggish]

Both your opinions are perfectly valid, though from a practical point of view I stand by what I said.

For starters, there are literally thousands of different PD DVDs of Keaton's films and PD collections on which they appear. Conversely, there are only a finite number of quality DVDs to be listed and I genuinely think that Chaplin's many comparisons here look much better for only including them. Imagine what a mess they'd be in if we started re-adding all those PD DVDs.
As well as all containing pretty worthless, wholly superseded material, many PD releases are 'bootlegged' from each other as well as all sorts of ropy sources. What's more, it's impossible to list them accurately, for instance in Keaton's case, the vast majority are NTSC-PAL transfers; can you tell which are which? Then don't forget to mention that by their very nature, these choppy, incomplete versions are all literally "cut". You're about to disappear down a very deep and twisty rabbit hole!

As they're all much of a muchness anyway, it's entirely sufficient to simply have a footnote stating the usual "There are also many variable, but often poor quality PD DVDs available from the likes of... [label names]" or words to that effect.

Keaton and Chaplin are the most popular stars of the silent era and their films are restored much more frequently than any others. We and the site's users would be better served by directing our precious time and efforts towards adding some of Buster's many brilliant restored DVD collections.

I do agree with this, especially the part about footnotes. I was going to suggest footnotes myself in my earlier reply, but to be a footnote in a comparison, the comparison has to exist and there weren't any for these films at all. Which is why I said "But I suppose we have to start somewhere." instead.

I don't know how old DVDCompare is, perhaps 20 years? And in all that time no-one has submitted or entered any specs for these films. That alone says something. But this submission does seem to have encouraged some interest so I guess that's a positive.

I only have one other PD release to submit, and by coincidence it's Harold Lloyd And unfortunately I don't have any other Keaton or Lloyd.

[baggish]

I've added the Elstree shorts and listed them as "unrestored transfers".

For "The 'High Sign'", "Day Dreams" and "The Balloonatic", there is TV System: NTSC when it should be PAL.

For "Day Dreams", is it worth putting "Daydreams" as an AKA? I think youtube 5bc6osAopRM might be the Elstree Hill version or similar (it has the same "fragments" blurb at the beginning, at least, and the duration is the same), and in the title card after that blurb there is no space. But in this one apparently from a Blu-Ray source Obkq7YvuLo there is a space. Obviously the Blu-Ray quality is immeasurably better, but both versions do seem to be using the same music.

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

Updated the Keaton entries.
Also went ahead and updated the current listings of Harold Lloyd films and it took much longer than I thought... Gladly done and hopefully no mistakes there.