Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby James-Masaki_Ryan » 27 Dec 2017 05:56

Added the Australian "Chaplin" Blu-ray which includes 7 of the Mutual Comedies on the disc.

http://dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=31852

Sadly the quality is awful with hissy distorted audio and analog sourced picture.
It was the first time that I can recall of finding something encoded in 720p 50fps.

Great in terms of extras length though.
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby Brent_Reid » 27 Dec 2017 19:37

Sounds like a bit of a mixed blessing, that. I guess they run as one continuous programme, but any chance you can post the runtimes of each short and who scored them? Is the audio definitely mono?

Incidentally, I wonder what the extras are for Umbrella's equivalent region 0 and NTSC Chaplin DVD? Unless it's a 2-discer, it certainly won't include that lot.
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby James-Masaki_Ryan » 27 Dec 2017 22:54

Brent_Reid wrote:Sounds like a bit of a mixed blessing, that. I guess they run as one continuous programme, but any chance you can post the runtimes of each short and who scored them? Is the audio definitely mono?

Incidentally, I wonder what the extras are for Umbrella's equivalent region 0 and NTSC Chaplin DVD? Unless it's a 2-discer, it certainly won't include that lot.

It runs as one continuous program with chapter stops, and each having a title card with text explanation about the short. Audio on quick sampling sounded like buzzy mono to me. As for the DVD I believe it is barebones.
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby Brent_Reid » 28 Dec 2017 04:56

Timings though? From the start of the first title card to the end of the last one for each. Most of those early Blackhawk/Image silent DVDs were mastered as one programme, so I had to sit down and work out the length of each item - like with all those Chaplin Essanays and Mutuals. Same with other films' trailers occasionally too. If you'll divulge their length and who played on the soundtracks (it's in the beginning or end credits!) then I'll figure out exactly which versions they are and how encoded.

As for the audio 'sounding' like mono, have you tried forcing it through Dolby Pro Logic or DTS Neo:6 and seeing how it behaves? It's the only way of ascertaining with 100% accuracy with a typical HT set-up. There are dozens of silent film DVDs on this site that are wrongly listed as mono and I'm slowly working my way through a longlist of corrections. Rather than starting a new thread for just correcting that each time though, I'm adding in as much extra info as poss. For small fixes is why a quick, simple comments section would come in handy!

By the way, "Behind the Screen" has a typo.
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby James-Masaki_Ryan » 28 Dec 2017 12:55

I only gave it a sampling as I will do a full review when I get the chance, but re-checking now, the audio is mono. I checked out the score for "The Cure" on the Umbrella disc and compared with the three scores on the BFI. None of them match. The Umbrella disc has a circus music like score, with added sound effects like slide whistles, bounces, and "Gulp" sounds with the drinking. As said, the audio has a constant buzzing sound and the video quality is like an old video tape.

We've gotten too spoiled with the restorations!

As for runtimes I will get to dividing them up when I do the review. And the typo of "Scren" is corrected!
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby Brent_Reid » 31 Dec 2017 00:06

This is, as they say, highly irregular. From your description I'm almost certain these are 6 of the 12 Van Beuren Mutuals. If so, they've actually been bootlegged - on Umbrella product! There are two separate Blackhawk versions and you should be able to tell them apart by these descriptions.
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby Anthony_DiPaola » 11 Jun 2018 02:05

Bump.
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby James-Masaki_Ryan » 11 Jun 2018 22:23

Any reason for the bump, Anthony?
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby Anthony_DiPaola » 19 Jun 2018 03:40

Depends; is everything from this comparison added?
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby Brent_Reid » 19 Jun 2018 11:45

Nope: I've got a pile of CC DVDs and BDs to add, so asked for it too remain until I'm done. But still, why bump it? There are always PMs...
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby Anthony_DiPaola » 21 Jun 2018 18:42

Brent_Reid wrote:Nope: I've got a pile of CC DVDs and BDs to add, so asked for it too remain until I'm done. But still, why bump it? There are always PMs...


Just want you to know that this is not forgotten.
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby Brent_Reid » 15 Jul 2018 12:44

If you like, you could add that identical restored Keystones sets have been released in:

Italy: Cineteca di Bologna
Germany: Sony
France: Arte Éditions
Spain: Avalon
Benelux: A-Film
Poland: Lobster Films
Australia: Transmission

Here are the timings for the US Image 90th Anniversary Edition Mutuals DVDs:

DISC ONE
- "The Floorwalker" (25:19)
- "The Fireman" (24:26)
- "The Vagabond" (26:26)
- "One A.M." (27:05)
- "The Count" (24:29)
- "The Pawnshop" (25:39)
Photo Gallery [slideshow] (10:55)

DISC TWO
- "Behind the Screen"
- "The Rink" 24:10
- "Easy Street" 24:39
- "The Cure" 24:15
- "The Immigrant" 24:35
- "The Adventurer" 24:10
Photo Gallery [slideshow] (8:44)

I see the Flicker Alley Essanay BD timings still haven't been corrected. I did say they were identical to the DVDs...
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby James-Masaki_Ryan » 16 Jul 2018 01:50

Brent_Reid wrote:The BD timings correspond to the DVD timings, within a second or so, naturally.

Could you give us the exact DVD timings then?
Also do you have the runtimes for discs 3 and 4 for the Mutual 90th?
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby Brent_Reid » 16 Jul 2018 09:26

I already gave the DVD timings last year (previous page) - they're now in the DVD comparison!

I'm afraid I've only got the first two discs and first booklet of the 90th set, or I'd have posted their exact runtimes. :( But I was given them for nothing. :-D I do intend to pick up the doc disc at some point, as it's available separately. Will post specs then.

I do have the Goliath disc, as it was also included in Charlie Chaplin Short Comedy Classics: The Complete Restored Essanay & Mutual Collection. It's 52:15.
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby James-Masaki_Ryan » 16 Jul 2018 09:45

Sorry, I meant could you give us the Blu-ray timings?
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby Brent_Reid » 19 Jul 2018 20:58

That's box set has been long buried away since I supplied the DVD timings, so you'll have to wait for me to dig it out. If you don't want to copy the DVD times over to the BDs, at least delete their current ones, as they're completely and utterly wrong.

In the meantime don't forget to correct the runtime for Chaplin's Goliath on the Mutuals!
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby James-Masaki_Ryan » 19 Jul 2018 22:28

I don't see what is off about the Flicker Alley Essanay Blu-ray timings. Unless you can provide what exactly is wrong.

Brent_Reid wrote:Here are the timings for the US Image 90th Anniversary Edition Mutuals DVDs:

DISC ONE
- "The Floorwalker" (25:19)
- "The Fireman" (24:26)
- "The Vagabond" (26:26)
- "One A.M." (27:05)
- "The Count" (24:29)
- "The Pawnshop" (25:39)
Photo Gallery [slideshow] (10:55)

DISC TWO
- "Behind the Screen"
- "The Rink" 24:10
- "Easy Street" 24:39
- "The Cure" 24:15
- "The Immigrant" 24:35
- "The Adventurer" 24:10
Photo Gallery [slideshow] (8:44)

In addition, how long is "Behind the Screen"?
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby Brent_Reid » 21 Jul 2018 20:59

I explained about the incorrect Flicker Alley BD timings on the previous page (post #15, containing my comparison). They were typed up (very) incorrectly during the BD/DVD set's production, ended up on all spec sheets and press releases, and have been wrongly copied ever since, including here! Once again: the actual, read-directly-off-the-disc times are the same on BD and DVD but are only currently on the DVD comparison page.

Sorry I managed to omit Behind the Screen; it's 24:00. A slight amendment to The Floorwalker too: it's actually 24:57. This is due to an otherwise-inconsequential anomaly of the disc authoring, which I'd previously overlooked.
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby James-Masaki_Ryan » 22 Jul 2018 00:33

Brent_Reid wrote:I explained about the incorrect Flicker Alley BD timings on the previous page (post #15, containing my comparison). They were typed up (very) incorrectly during the BD/DVD set's production, ended up on all spec sheets and press releases, and have been wrongly copied ever since, including here! Once again: the actual, read-directly-off-the-disc times are the same on BD and DVD but are only currently on the DVD comparison page.

The Blu-ray timings are identical to the Blu-ray.com review timings. If they are incorrect, instead of just telling us they are wrong please tell us the correct runtimes.
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Re: Charlie Chaplin Keystone, Essanay and Mutual DVDs

Postby Brent_Reid » 31 Jul 2018 15:37

Here are the correct FA BD timings:

DISC ONE (Blu-ray)
The Films (with Play All) (215:00)
- "His New Job" (1915) (29:22)
- "A Night Out" (1915) (27:53)
- "The Champion" (1915) (31:43)
- "In the Park" (1915) (14:36)
- "A Jitney Elopement" (1915) (25:30)
- "The Tramp" (1915) (27:14)
- "By the Sea" (1915) (14:46)
- "His Regeneration" (1915) (14:54)
- "Work" (1915) (29:02)

DISC TWO (Blu-ray)
The Films (with Play All) (161:10)
- "A Woman" (1915) (23:45)
- "The Bank" (1915) (25:51)
- "Shanghaied" (1915) (28:10)
- "A Night in the Show" (1915) (25:04)
- "Burlesque on 'Carmen'" (1916) (31:51)
- "Police" (1916) (26:29)
"Triple Trouble" (1918) short (23:50)
"Charlie Butts In" (1920) short (10:24)

Some Divisa Mutual BD typos: "The Birth of the Tramp" should be 60:19 and the "His Regeneration" short is from 1915.
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